Comments on: Confused protectionists http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2008/08/03/confused-protectionists/ Economics, Politics and Public Policy in East Asia and the Pacific Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:50:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: Shiro Armstronghttp://www.eastasiaforum.org/2008/08/03/confused-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33 Shiro Armstrong Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:53:49 +0000 http://eastasiaforum.wordpress.com/?p=588#comment-33 Okay, so it seems you misunderstand me in your point (a). No, I would not be happy with an industry completely shutting down from being disadvantaged relative to foreign competition, from an ETS established independently of a global scheme. A one off transfer of wealth (ie free allocation of permits) would not result in that but rather would assist in the transition to lower carbon emissions globally which is what the objective is after all. My main point, which is unaddressed, is the problem with carbon tariffs. You seem to share some of the concern I have about them but apparently favour carbon tariffs. I agree we need to show leadership (and also need leadership from elsewhere) but I think we favour different kinds of leadership. Okay, so it seems you misunderstand me in your point (a). No, I would not be happy with an industry completely shutting down from being disadvantaged relative to foreign competition, from an ETS established independently of a global scheme. A one off transfer of wealth (ie free allocation of permits) would not result in that but rather would assist in the transition to lower carbon emissions globally which is what the objective is after all.

My main point, which is unaddressed, is the problem with carbon tariffs. You seem to share some of the concern I have about them but apparently favour carbon tariffs.

I agree we need to show leadership (and also need leadership from elsewhere) but I think we favour different kinds of leadership.

]]> By: Joshua Ganshttp://www.eastasiaforum.org/2008/08/03/confused-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Joshua Gans Sun, 03 Aug 2008 08:27:31 +0000 http://eastasiaforum.wordpress.com/?p=588#comment-32 Wow I have no idea what you are talking about. I pretty explicitly said we have to show leadership on climate change -- real emissions reduction and not something cosmetic. That means not accepting as a tick on our account when emissions reductions domestically are only made up by an increase elsewhere. And guess what, for a few percent of our emissions that is the case and in some industries it is likely to be devastatingly so which is why they have been left out completely (e.g., agriculture). So let us be clear, am I reading that you would (a) be happy if an industry completely shut down as a result of an ETS and (b) you would argue that that should be a credit in terms of our contribution to global emissions reduction. I am not saying that there is an industry like this -- I don't know if that is the case -- but as a matter of plain economics, if there was, is this really what you are saying? Wow I have no idea what you are talking about. I pretty explicitly said we have to show leadership on climate change — real emissions reduction and not something cosmetic. That means not accepting as a tick on our account when emissions reductions domestically are only made up by an increase elsewhere. And guess what, for a few percent of our emissions that is the case and in some industries it is likely to be devastatingly so which is why they have been left out completely (e.g., agriculture).

So let us be clear, am I reading that you would (a) be happy if an industry completely shut down as a result of an ETS and (b) you would argue that that should be a credit in terms of our contribution to global emissions reduction. I am not saying that there is an industry like this — I don’t know if that is the case — but as a matter of plain economics, if there was, is this really what you are saying?

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